raw feeding - not just a fad, pt 2

The Dick Van Dyke show (of all things!)

Minute 10:20 - listen to the "houseguest" dog's menu:
Chunk horse meat... lamb's liver... tripe!

Treat | for adult dogs only!

I say for adult's only because these come out thick and hard, and require adult teeth to chew them down.

Chicken Gizzards are a great muscle meat when served raw. Check out nutritiondata.com for the nutrient breakdown.

I thought it would be a great treat for the puppy (who is teething) but he couldn't get through the raw form. It is really elastic and chewy, and he had a tough time. 

So, I sliced them in half, put them on a tin covered baking tray on broil and let them sizzle for about 45 minutes.
They came out looking a bit like chewy beef jerky:


My adult dogs LOVE them, but still the puppy had a tough time with them! He did manage to "num" it down a bit, just chewing it and chewing it. I think it did the trick and he ended up eating two in one sitting.


In retrospect, I think sticking with the raw version would have been easier on us all!

feelin' feisty | risks of raw

The following is from a 'tidy' little blurb about how feeding raw meat to your dog is going to cause you, well, death. Or at least a nasty case of salmonella.

Let's explore the blurb:

Risks of Raw
The study looked at 138 dogs from 84 households in Ontario.  One-quarter of households (21/84, 25%) had at least one dog (32/138, 23.2%) that was shedding Salmonella at one time, which is considerably higher than the 1-4% of pet dogs that are typically expected to be shedding this zoonotic pathogen.

1. Consuming a commercial or homemade raw diet, a homemade cooked diet, or raw meat and eggs, increases a pet dog’s risk of carrying Salmonella.
Raw is raw, and by now we're hoping that people are getting the message that raw is contaminated, whether we're talking about a commercial or homemade raw diet, or feeding any raw animal products (e.g. meat, eggs).  The fact that homemade cooked diets also made the list could be explained by the fact that in order to make such a diet, owners still need to start with the raw ingredients.  Handling and cooking raw meat and animal products for your pet should be done with the same precautions as handling and cooking raw meat for yourself or your family.  If these homemade diets were not cooked as thoroughly as they should have been, or if there was contamination of the dog's dishes with raw product, that could explain the association with Salmonella shedding.  Although traditional commercial diets can also be contaminated with pathogens (usually after processing), the risk with these is much lower.

Can I just say that handling an egg for yourself to fry can also pose a risk of salmonella?
This is my favorite line, like ever, "homemade cooked diets also made the list could be explained by the fact that in order to make such a diet, owners still need to start with the raw ingredients". Because commercial products (that they are so very much for, I gather?) are never ever made with fresh, raw ingredients? Science Diet gets their chicken ingredient from already cooked chicken that was never, ever raw?
And... isn't this how we prepare our own food? Shouldn't there be a 1-4% increase in Salmonella in my own stool samples?

Can I also just say that perhaps all these homes visited were never taught how to wash their hands? Never taught how to store, handle and prepare raw meat? If feeding myself comes at somewhat of a "no brainer", feeding my dog should also.
Ever eat sashimi? Specifically chicken sashimi dipped in raw egg? It is fabulously tasty. Risky? Sure, but most Japanese cuisine (that I've had the good fortune to consume) that is served raw is handled with the utmost care and selected from only the best of sources. I aim to do the same with myself and dogs. Choose meat intended for food with the utmost care and selected from the best source.

Or maybe its luck that I've been preparing and eating flesh & eggs & spinach & tomatoes for decades, and feeding my dogs raw for over two years... and none of us have contracted any parasites or bacteria.

2. Testing multiple consecutive whole fecal samples greatly improves Salmonella recovery in dogs.
This is no great surprise either.  Dogs (and many other species) shed Salmonella intermittently, so not every fecal sample from a Salmonella-positive dog is going to yield Salmonella on culture.  The authors tested five daily fecal samples from each dog.  Based on this study, the sensitivity of testing a single fecal sample in a dog (i.e. the likelihood that a Salmonella-positive dog will test positive on one fecal sample) was only 35.5%.  That means almost two-thirds of positive dogs will be missed if they're only tested once.  The take-home message on this point is that in order to find Salmonella in a healthy pet dog, multiple samples should be tested.

 FIVE daily samples. FIVE. I can't imagine any raw fed dog providing a fecal sample FIVE times a day. I'm lucky if I get ONE a day (because of how wonderfully a raw diet is digested).

I want to explore how one gets infected with Salmonella.
From the Center for Disease Control:
How do people catch Salmonella?

Salmonella live in the intestinal tracts of humans and other animals, including birds. Salmonella are usually transmitted to humans by eating foods contaminated with animal feces. Contaminated foods usually look and smell normal. Contaminated foods are often of animal origin, such as beef, poultry, milk, or eggs, but any food, including vegetables, may become contaminated. Thorough cooking kills Salmonella. Food may also become contaminated by the hands of an infected food handler who did not wash hands with soap after using the bathroom.

Salmonella may also be found in the feces of some pets, especially those with diarrhea, and people can become infected if they do not wash their hands after contact with pets or pet feces. Reptiles, such as turtles, lizards, and snakes, are particularly likely to harbor Salmonella.  Many chicks and young birds carry Salmonella in their feces. People should always wash their hands immediately after handling a reptile or bird, even if the animal is healthy. Adults should also assure that children wash their hands after handling a reptile or bird, or after touching its environment.

Also, the Risks of Raw study points at raw-fed dogs shedding Salmonella. Not infections, not infections of family members, but just that it is present in their feces. As the public is not prone to rub dog feces in their face, the risk of infection should be low. Is there proof otherwise? Not in this study.
Dogs also shed E.coli! Shouldn't we be having a state of emergency over E.coli as well?
Shouldn't we never own reptiles? Never eat peanut butter? Spinach? Tomatoes?

3. Having multiple dogs in a household, using probiotics and contact with livestock are important potential risk factors that need to be investigated further.
These were factors that were flagged by the authors for future investigation, because at first they seemed to be associated with Salmonella shedding in the dogs, but when the feeding of raw diets was taken into account the associations were no longer significant.  A larger study, or one using a different design, will be needed to help tease apart the potential effects of these factors from feeding practices.
The bottom line: Feeding raw is risky business.  Some people swear by the benefits of raw diets, but the objective evidence is lacking.  There is clear evidence of the risks.  In my mind, the potential up-side simply cannot outweigh the well-established down-side of feeding raw diets to pets.

The unbelievably biased point of view is most evident in their final paragraph.
Well-established? When? By whom? How much risk, exactly, and of what?

Now that my feisty has run out... I'm just trying to see if from their perspective... do you think its also a case in knowing TOO much? Being TOO aware? Never doing what could be biologically the best thing ever for your dog (feeding raw) because you are too hyper aware of the POTENTIAL risks?

Maybe a bit of ignorance is truly bliss... I don't worry as much about the risks of parasites, bacteria and zoonosis thereof because I'm confident in how I safely/smartly handle, store, prepare and feed the raw food.

Man, I wish I worked for Mythbusters!

raw feeding is not a fad.

Health consciousness is not a fad. It is a way of living life!
Visit Jack LaLanne's website for more videos, blog, etc.

raw recall | Nature's Variety CHICKEN

Nature's Variety has initiated a voluntary recall of their Chicken Formula Raw Frozen Diet for dogs and cats with a "Best If Used By" date of 11/10/10 because these products may be contaminated with Salmonella.  The only products affected are limited to chicken medallions, patties, and chubs with a "Best If Used By" date of 11/10/10.  No other Nature's Variety products are affected.
The affected products are limited to the Nature's Variety Chicken Formula Raw Frozen Diet packaged in the following forms:

• 3 lb chicken medallions (UPC# 7 69949 60130 2) with a "Best If Used By" date of 11/10/10
• 6 lb chicken patties (UPC# 7 69949 60120 3) with a "Best If Used By" date of 11/10/10
• 2 lb chicken chubs (UPC# 7 69949 60121 0) with a "Best If Used By" date of 11/10/10

If you are a consumer and have purchased one of the affected products, please return the unopened product to your retailer for a full refund or replacement.  If your package has been opened, please dispose of the raw food in a safe manner by securing it in a covered trash receptacle.  Then, bring your receipt (or the empty package in a sealed bag) to your local retailer for a full refund or replacement.

How a raw feeder spends her tax return...

By purchasing a meat grinder, y'all.

I am officially one of the weirdest people I know. Instead of going out to dinner or whatever normal people do, a portion of my tax return is going towards something I've wanted for almost two years.


Heavy-Duty Meat Grinder
The powerful 400-watt/120-volt motor in the Cabela's Heavy-Duty Grinder is capable of grinding more than 2 lbs. per minute to make quick work of a lot of meat. And unlike most grinders, it has an all-metal head and tray, instead of plastic, for greater durability. Metal cutting knife and grinding plates in three sizes (3mm, 4.5mm and 8mm) produce coarse- or fine-ground meat. Forward add reverse. Imported.
Protect your grinder with this tough canvas cover. It will keep dust and dirt from collecting on your appliance.


Look out veal shoulders! Watch your back, pork necks! I'll be grinding you soon.  


(**A word about grinding.. I do not believe grinding size appropriate bones for your dogs beats letting them rip, tear, grind and crunch raw meaty bones on their own.  For my shibas [18 & 24lbs] I will not, not, not be grinding anything they handle themselves [chicken cuts, turkey necks, lamb cuts, fish, goat, et al] but I will be grinding cuts I wish they could handle, but cannot [veal shoulders, pork necks]. I plan to grind more for the puppy @ 14wks old until his adult teeth come in, then he will be able to tackle meaty bones on his own)

nature's variety | bison

 

Despite a little hang up in sourcing (so far, unknown) and ingredients, I did have my dogs try this new protein variety from Nature's Variety.

Ingredients:


My main question is about the montmorillonite clay. And its function in raw dog food.

According to their website, this ingredient is defined as:

Montmorillonite is a clay that is primarily colloidal silicate, which contains over 50 ultra-trace mineral compounds including Antimony, Barium, Beryllium, Boron, Bromine, Cadmium, Carbon, Cerium, Cesium, Chloride, Chromium, Cobalt, Copper, Dysprosium, Fluoride, Gadolinium, Gallium, Germanium, Iodine, Lanthanum, Lithium, Manganese, Neodymium, Nickel, Phosphorus, Rhenium, Rubidium, Samarium, Scandium, Silicon, Silver, Strontium, Sulfur, Tellurium, Thallium, Thorium, Tin, Titanium, Vanadium, Ytterbium, Yttrium, Zinc, and Zirconium. Feed studies by the Veterinary Medical Diagnostics Laboratory at Texas A&M University have shown that Montmorillonite clays can sequester (bind) aflatoxins contained in grains and oilseeds.

Wikipedia has this:

Other uses include as an anti-caking agent in animal feed

 And complete mineral data for montmorillonite here.


The dogs did enjoy these medallions, though.

organs

prey model raw is dependent on the inclusion of secreting organs (liver, et al) for a balanced diet.
Prey Model Guidelines: Feed 2 to 3 percent of your dog's ideal body weight each day, with 80 percent of the diet being muscle meat, 10 percent bone and 10 percent organs. Of the 10 percent organs, 5 percent, half, can be liver.

what are [some] secreting organs?
Liver (in rabbits, pancreas is also [sometimes] included in their liver), Brain, Testicles, Kidney, Spleen, Thymus



Commonly confused as organs, but still in the 'offal' catagory - heart, skin, eyes, stomach (lining), tongue and lungs are considered muscle meat.

GOAT, v 2.0

So I inadvertantly 'got smart' by storing the left over goat in a bag with defrosting, juicy cuts of beef.

Either this was enough to entice consumption, or accidental trickery - but the goat was eaten alongside the beef.

Success. Sort of.

GOAT

aka - why shibas are ridiculous.

I was SO excited to find a bag of chunk, raw, bone in goat meat at a market. So excited. I took pictures because the dogs seemed excited, too:




Slightly freezer burnt, but still lookin' good.
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A little bit about goat:
Some interesting facts about goat meat:
Goats are the No. 1 red meat in the world. It is low in fat and cholesterol. According to nutritional facts supplied by the USDA, one 3-ounce serving of goat meat contains 122 calories, 2.58 grams of fat, 23 grams of protein and 3.3 milligrams of iron. The same amount of chicken has 120 calories, 3.5 grams of fat and 0.5 milligrams of iron. The same serving of beef has 245 calories, 16 grams of fat, 23 grams of protein and 2.9 milligrams of iron, while pork has 310 calories, 24 grams of fat, 21 grams of protein and 2.7 milligrams of iron, and lamb provides 235 calories, 16 grams of fat, 22 grams of protein and 1.4 milligrams of iron.

Some pics from other raw feeders
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After packaging up most into freezer bags (portioning) I gave a smidgen to each dog, for a taste:

Which did seem to go over quite well, besides Tsuki trying to bury it, but did eat it (she got the marrow):

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Then comes the real test - the actual meal of goat.
Consideration:

Tasting:

More consideration:


Rolling??


Needless to say, he got a bath, and the goat was put away until their morning meal.
Which, again, was not successful. They just stared at it.

Tsuki chose her turkey neck over the goat:


So, perhaps goat stew for the dogs tonight? Or I can suck it up and buy a meat grinder, mix the goat with tripe or something irresistible...

the easy way out

For every topic in this world, there is always one who argues it... or doubts it... or has tried it and found it to be a negative experience and is advocating that everyone avoid it.

The internet is FULL of this stuff. Take, for instance, a place called Second Chance Ranch and their negative views on the raw diet 'fad'. Now read the rebuttal (long, but full of good stuff - promise!)

Picking the truth from the lies is the hard part. Unfortunately, most people would rather not take the time to find the truth--they just want the info, now.

Which I suppose is, in a way, a blessing in disguise when it comes to the raw diet. If you're not willing to do a lot of truth-seeking and research before feeding it, then you shouldn't feed it. Period. Better to feed kibble than a poorly balanced raw diet.

Admit it - kibble is the easy way out. Whether the issue is time (not enough), availability (hard to find), research (haven't done it) or personal (can't touch it) - kibble is the easiest way to feed a dog. I'll admit it. I go back to kibble when I have foster dogs - its easier. But is it better? I can't make that claim, I can only tell you what I have learned - via this blog.

Just to put the SCR's argument into perspective... the 'extensive' research mentioned can only have taken place in the last 60-70 years, as kibble had not existed before then and it was widely practiced to feed raw scraps to dogs. Therefore, it is not a fad. It is (was, and should be) a way of life for the domestic dog.

Reading accounts like this put it into more perspective for me. This is a breeder who has seen many generations THRIVE (not just live, or survive) on a total raw diet. For me, 'nuff said.

I have seen the benefits in my own dogs, its not just a digestive revolution - but a total wellness one. The results I have seen MYSELF, after the due research going into the diet, is enough to convince me forever - the raw diet works.

and now admitting my dorkiest side.. Hell, even Hagrid is shown feeding his pets/creatures raw meat/prey! Like hippogriff Buckbeak, who gets whole prey ferrets in Prisoner of Azkaban; and dog, Fang, gets a big red steak in Half Blood Prince. :)

Lamb

Lamb is a protein I generally give in medallion form, unless it is post-holiday and on sale in whole form.

Luckily, our little local grocer had a fantastic sale on cuts of lamb shoulder and the shibas enjoyed it.

Lamb is very fatty, one of the highest according to Dr. Pitcairn's calculation, but also quite nutritious [including high levels of zinc for stamina, skin, and heart health while containing all essential amino acids] when part of a variety-rich raw foods diet.

Also, the shibas (24 & 18lbs) had no trouble getting through the bones in the meat cuts:

Bland diet on raw?

Not that I've had a serious problem with it yet...

But lets say you are feeding raw - have tons of variety in the diet and for some reason, your dog has an upset stomach (the runs!)
1. I would fast the dog for a full day (or half a day if you can't handle it) then up the bone content in the next meal (like, a chicken back).

Lets say your dog is vomiting, and/or has 'the runs' (after you consider a vet visit..)
2. Chicken, plain old raw chicken is the blandest thing I can think of on a raw diet. It is what is recommended as the very first protein to try when switching your dog to a raw diet from kibble.

^this^ I have had to do. When I first began raw, we spent about a week and a half introducing different parts of the chicken (including liver). Then we introduced beef in combination with chicken. Then we added turkey. Then fish. Then pork - ACK! The pork was a disaster... we had to A. FAST him a day, and B. backtrack all the way to week one (chicken) to get Kitsune's digestion back to normal.

As a last resort
3. Nature's Variety Raw Medallions are SO bone heavy, they firm up even the runniest of stool!

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I say this because I recently got an email about a Wheaten terrier who has been on raw for about a month, and had a digestive set back when trying to be introduced to veal. The owner wanted to give him a bland diet (of cooked chicken & rice, maybe some pumpkin).
Once your dog has adjusted to the digestion of raw foods, it will make his digestive track work even harder to digest cooked foods (topped with carbohydrates - rice, and vegetation - pumpkin). The owner was even considering going back to kibble until the issue resolved. NO NO NO! Just backtrack, keep your head, fast, and go back to chicken.

I certainly have more research to do on the topic, these are just observations tested on and approved by my dogs!

more raw chicken videos

some more videos of the dogs eating their raw meals. Chicken halves and a slab of beef.

If you watch, notice that Tsuki's portion of chicken had the liver, kidney and fish oil capsule frozen into her half of the chicken (you can sort of see it in the second posted video here). I do this because she's so PICKY that she tends to ignore organs and fish oil capsules within her meal. Occasionally I can trick her into eating at least the organs attached to the chicken, but sometimes she maneuvers around them. Pip.





Lots of bone crunching in this one:

leftovers

Tsuki is very 'particular'. Where she sits, how she sleeps, where she potties, how she walks across a room and especially what and when she eats.

It was a particular challenge to get her used to 'timed' raw feedings after being free fed kibble most of her life (my fault, exclusively).

But she does well, most of the time.

I have been trying to transition the dogs to large meals, fed once a day. Tsuki is not fond of this.

We start with something similar to this portion for each dog, where Kitsune (24lbs) gets the larger, compared to Tsuki's (18lbs) portion:


Then each gets as much time as it takes to eat it. Generally for Kitsu, this is about 5-10 minutes. Sometimes Tsuki is the same, and sometimes she just (literally) d-r-a-g-s it out...


Until she completely ignores the fact that it was, in fact, mealtime.

So, we do package up her leftovers:

And she gets them during her next meal.

The transition to once a day larger feedings has been a challenge because of Tsuki's finickiness. She doesn't eat the whole of her portion, then about 10-12 hours later, she does a yellow foamy urka-gurka vomit on an empty stomach, thus necessecitating a 2-meal-a-day system again.

I really don't mind much that she requires two smaller meals... I take the time and do the extra portioning. She just has to be difficult! :)

holiday meal | cornish hens

the shibas got cornish game hens for their 'holiday feast', and some chuck roast chunks on the side. (click the link for nutritiondata's nutrient breakdown)

raw towel

easy clean up when feeding raw - use a designated 'raw towel'



and train your dog to stay on it ;)

Turkey Necks

To dress or not to dress...

the fish? Most people dress it, but I think the dogs prefer it au naturale.

Dressed Smelt

I often search grocery store aisles for decent deals on both canned (in water, no added salt) and fresh fish. Not every fish should be fed (or consumed by you!) but many are safe.
I've heard way too many questionable things about farmed fish, or wild caught salmon that I tend to steer clear of many larger, 'popular' fish. However, my dogs do get a Wild Caught Salmon Oil capsule a few times a week.

There are several kinds of fishy treats for dogs, including the Herring by Snacks 21 and Grizzly NuTreats Salmon.

Fresh
Our dogs get a mixture of Jack Mackerel, Sardines, Smelt (not as often), Anchovies & occasionally Trout (when in season). Most canned products have loads of extra salt, but I have been able to find a few companies that only can in water with no salt (look at the ingredients!). Jack Mackerel is harder to find without salt, so I feed that very seldom.

In the fresh variety, I have been able to find whole anchovies, some whole smelt. Mostly, the smelt and trout are 'dressed', aka 'cleaned & gutted'.

At this point, the dogs are not getting the full nutritional benefit of a whole fish (bones, organs) just the skin and flesh.

It isn't ideal, but at least its a part of a larger variety of raw meat protein sources for them in their raw diet. My goal is to find and feed whole raw fish at least once a week.

Some other items I've been able to find (whole) and feed: prawns, squid, fish heads

First Time Raw

I filmed Maisy's very first time eating a whole raw meal (medallions don't count!).

My best and most trusted advice is to give the dog a Raw Meaty Bone that is bigger than its head. It requires them to work at it (and not gulp) and will be a very fulfilling meal experience for them.

This held true for Maisy. She went from gulping kibble and swallowing medallions whole to carefully chewing and crunching her entire half chicken. Good girl!